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	<title>Comments on: CUSA is not actually sorry</title>
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		<title>By: ABarlow</title>
		<link>http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/26/cusa-is-not-actually-sorry/comment-page-1/#comment-7784</link>
		<dc:creator>ABarlow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>CU grad &amp; Rick, by endorsing the motion, the CUSA has endorsed the whereas clauses associated with it. This is written into Robert&#039;s Rules of Order, on which the CUSA constitution relies to govern the decorum of meetings. The third of the whereas clauses is explicitly racist/sexist, not to mention just plain wrong. The second whereas clause is dubious, because there is no evidence that the volunteer community was unhappy with CCFF.

Whether or not their actual intent was discriminatory is irrelevant. The purpose of the whereas clauses in a motion is to convey the intent of the board for passing the motion, since the specifics of the debate will not generally be seen by the public unless without looking into the entire minutes of the meeting. If the board has reasoned that the whereas clause was discriminatory, it was fully in their power to change it. The CUSA has made this situation worse for themselves (and the student population at large) for not taking responsibility for their error. Had an immediate retraction and apology for the motion&#039;s content been released, the problem likely wouldn&#039;t have left the campus walls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CU grad &amp; Rick, by endorsing the motion, the CUSA has endorsed the whereas clauses associated with it. This is written into Robert&#8217;s Rules of Order, on which the CUSA constitution relies to govern the decorum of meetings. The third of the whereas clauses is explicitly racist/sexist, not to mention just plain wrong. The second whereas clause is dubious, because there is no evidence that the volunteer community was unhappy with CCFF.</p>
<p>Whether or not their actual intent was discriminatory is irrelevant. The purpose of the whereas clauses in a motion is to convey the intent of the board for passing the motion, since the specifics of the debate will not generally be seen by the public unless without looking into the entire minutes of the meeting. If the board has reasoned that the whereas clause was discriminatory, it was fully in their power to change it. The CUSA has made this situation worse for themselves (and the student population at large) for not taking responsibility for their error. Had an immediate retraction and apology for the motion&#8217;s content been released, the problem likely wouldn&#8217;t have left the campus walls.
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		<title>By: angry CF aunt</title>
		<link>http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/26/cusa-is-not-actually-sorry/comment-page-1/#comment-7778</link>
		<dc:creator>angry CF aunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Donnie Northurp braggs in a response to Jonathan Kay&#039;s blogg in the National Post 11/25/2008 that &quot;I get payed(sic)lots of money and have my tuition covered as part of being a councilor in CUSA&quot;.  Why is no one demanding his resignation from CUSA?  It is his rascist and sexist proposal that started this whole mess.  If he can be hired he can  be fired and that is where students should be foucsing their efforts.  Make the person that is actually responsible, for making you all look bad, suffer the consequences of his actions.  
And for those of you trying to claim this is just about changing charities, read the proposal.  No where does it say that Carleton does such a good job of raising money that we need to look at spreading the wealth around, it says there is a need to find a more inclusive disease.  I have news for the CUSA, if they would bother to do real research, they would be hard put to find a much more inclusive disease.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donnie Northurp braggs in a response to Jonathan Kay&#8217;s blogg in the National Post 11/25/2008 that &#8220;I get payed(sic)lots of money and have my tuition covered as part of being a councilor in CUSA&#8221;.  Why is no one demanding his resignation from CUSA?  It is his rascist and sexist proposal that started this whole mess.  If he can be hired he can  be fired and that is where students should be foucsing their efforts.  Make the person that is actually responsible, for making you all look bad, suffer the consequences of his actions.<br />
And for those of you trying to claim this is just about changing charities, read the proposal.  No where does it say that Carleton does such a good job of raising money that we need to look at spreading the wealth around, it says there is a need to find a more inclusive disease.  I have news for the CUSA, if they would bother to do real research, they would be hard put to find a much more inclusive disease.
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		<title>By: Wayne Hall</title>
		<link>http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/26/cusa-is-not-actually-sorry/comment-page-1/#comment-7695</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In response to CU Grad:

CU Grad the motion speaks for itself:

&quot;Motion to Drop Shinerama Fundraising Campaign from Orientation Week: 

Whereas Orientation week strives to be inclusive as possible; 

Whereas all orientees and volunteers should feel like their fundraising efforts will serve the their (sic) diverse communities; 

**And Whereas Cystic fibrosis has been recently revealed to only affect white people, and primarily men.** 

Be it resolved that: CUSA discontinue its support of this campaign. 

Be it further resolved that that (sic) the CUSA representatives on the incoming Orientation Supervisory Board work to select a new broad reaching charity for orientation week.&quot;

We don&#039;t have to read anything more to conclude that this decision was racist and sexist. Enough said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to CU Grad:</p>
<p>CU Grad the motion speaks for itself:</p>
<p>&#8220;Motion to Drop Shinerama Fundraising Campaign from Orientation Week: </p>
<p>Whereas Orientation week strives to be inclusive as possible; </p>
<p>Whereas all orientees and volunteers should feel like their fundraising efforts will serve the their (sic) diverse communities; </p>
<p>**And Whereas Cystic fibrosis has been recently revealed to only affect white people, and primarily men.** </p>
<p>Be it resolved that: CUSA discontinue its support of this campaign. </p>
<p>Be it further resolved that that (sic) the CUSA representatives on the incoming Orientation Supervisory Board work to select a new broad reaching charity for orientation week.&#8221;</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t have to read anything more to conclude that this decision was racist and sexist. Enough said.
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		<title>By: Cameron MacIntosh</title>
		<link>http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/26/cusa-is-not-actually-sorry/comment-page-1/#comment-7694</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron MacIntosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As a student at Carleton, I&#039;d like to point out that Smyth&#039;s claims that CUSA was only interested in being &quot;inclusive&quot; and that &quot;this was blown way out of proportion&quot; seems really disingenuous to me. 

About a month and a half ago they told the Canadian Council for the Blind that they could not set-up an information booth in the Atrium, a student commons, because they didn&#039;t believe in letting &quot;corporate entities&quot; onto student space. 

This bothered me because every year the CCB donates $25,000 in bursaries to Carleton Students with visual impairments.

I don&#039;t even wann talk about what they said to me when I went in with a proposal to recognize students with with non-visible disabilities. 
I think the real question to ask of CUSA is why they don&#039;t seem to care about issues that they can&#039;t score political points from.

Honestly, Brittany even the blind can see you&#039;re just sorry you got caught!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a student at Carleton, I&#8217;d like to point out that Smyth&#8217;s claims that CUSA was only interested in being &#8220;inclusive&#8221; and that &#8220;this was blown way out of proportion&#8221; seems really disingenuous to me. </p>
<p>About a month and a half ago they told the Canadian Council for the Blind that they could not set-up an information booth in the Atrium, a student commons, because they didn&#8217;t believe in letting &#8220;corporate entities&#8221; onto student space. </p>
<p>This bothered me because every year the CCB donates $25,000 in bursaries to Carleton Students with visual impairments.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t even wann talk about what they said to me when I went in with a proposal to recognize students with with non-visible disabilities.<br />
I think the real question to ask of CUSA is why they don&#8217;t seem to care about issues that they can&#8217;t score political points from.</p>
<p>Honestly, Brittany even the blind can see you&#8217;re just sorry you got caught!
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		<title>By: CU Grad</title>
		<link>http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/26/cusa-is-not-actually-sorry/comment-page-1/#comment-7674</link>
		<dc:creator>CU Grad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/26/cusa-is-not-actually-sorry/#comment-7674</guid>
		<description>Thank you Rick for being the only person in this blog commentary to make the point that this is getting totally out of hand.

This whole ridiculous &#039;scandal&#039; has been blown WAY OUT OF PROPORTION by the media and CU students who are &#039;protesting&#039; but are uninformed as to what CUSA actually does for the student population, and what CUSA&#039;s actual intent on changing charities was. 

CUSA is a Student&#039;s Association, who does nothing but try to provide for their students and give back to the community. CUSA&#039;s suggestion that perhaps its time to start supporting another charity was not necessary a bad idea, nor was it ever a permanent change. IT WAS A SUGGESTION PEOPLE!!!!!! Council merely voted in supoprt of SUGGESTING A CHANGE! 

I think that CF is a VERY worthy cause and participated as did most CU students in the Shinerama fundraising, however there are a million other very worthy charities we could also help! Carleton has made CF over $1M in the years they have supported them. Why is is bad to want to simply consider helping another charity out??? 

The fact that there was an error in the facts about CF representation in the population was indeed unfortunate, and came off very badly. However, everyone makes mistakes, and this was not the deciding factor in anything. 

Perhaps folks should actually contact the CUSA representatives and instead of attacking them with anger, they could hear the FACTS and discover the fact that half of this &#039;coverage&#039; was perpetrated by a radical student group at Carleton University that DOES NOT SUPPORT CUSA and does everything is its power to smear CUSA. It took this error and ran with it. Unfortuately now, everything CUSA does will appear as backpedalling, even when their original intent was not discriminatory.

I&#039;m certain that most people will just be content to continue spew their anger and not get the real story, or will not listen to the facts -- which is so unfortunate for CUSA&#039;s representatives who are capable intelligent young men and women(for the writer who attacked their intelligence)for they are now stuck dealing with media who don&#039;t bother doing their homework and publish responsible journalism (so common these days) before they started their smear across the country. 

Seriously disappointed in everyone who hasn&#039;t bothered to get both sides of the story and investigate who&#039;s agenda is really being furthered by this total attack on CUSA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Rick for being the only person in this blog commentary to make the point that this is getting totally out of hand.</p>
<p>This whole ridiculous &#8217;scandal&#8217; has been blown WAY OUT OF PROPORTION by the media and CU students who are &#8216;protesting&#8217; but are uninformed as to what CUSA actually does for the student population, and what CUSA&#8217;s actual intent on changing charities was. </p>
<p>CUSA is a Student&#8217;s Association, who does nothing but try to provide for their students and give back to the community. CUSA&#8217;s suggestion that perhaps its time to start supporting another charity was not necessary a bad idea, nor was it ever a permanent change. IT WAS A SUGGESTION PEOPLE!!!!!! Council merely voted in supoprt of SUGGESTING A CHANGE! </p>
<p>I think that CF is a VERY worthy cause and participated as did most CU students in the Shinerama fundraising, however there are a million other very worthy charities we could also help! Carleton has made CF over $1M in the years they have supported them. Why is is bad to want to simply consider helping another charity out??? </p>
<p>The fact that there was an error in the facts about CF representation in the population was indeed unfortunate, and came off very badly. However, everyone makes mistakes, and this was not the deciding factor in anything. </p>
<p>Perhaps folks should actually contact the CUSA representatives and instead of attacking them with anger, they could hear the FACTS and discover the fact that half of this &#8216;coverage&#8217; was perpetrated by a radical student group at Carleton University that DOES NOT SUPPORT CUSA and does everything is its power to smear CUSA. It took this error and ran with it. Unfortuately now, everything CUSA does will appear as backpedalling, even when their original intent was not discriminatory.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m certain that most people will just be content to continue spew their anger and not get the real story, or will not listen to the facts &#8212; which is so unfortunate for CUSA&#8217;s representatives who are capable intelligent young men and women(for the writer who attacked their intelligence)for they are now stuck dealing with media who don&#8217;t bother doing their homework and publish responsible journalism (so common these days) before they started their smear across the country. </p>
<p>Seriously disappointed in everyone who hasn&#8217;t bothered to get both sides of the story and investigate who&#8217;s agenda is really being furthered by this total attack on CUSA.
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		<title>By: JS</title>
		<link>http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/26/cusa-is-not-actually-sorry/comment-page-1/#comment-7622</link>
		<dc:creator>JS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Rick you&#039;re a decent spin artist, seriously though, you&#039;re working overtime on this one.

If they didn&#039;t endorse the preamble, why endorse the motion, WHICH ENDORSES THE PREAMBLE! 

Rick, I know you care for your significant other/family member/friend that voted in favour of this motion as part of the board of members, but give it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick you&#8217;re a decent spin artist, seriously though, you&#8217;re working overtime on this one.</p>
<p>If they didn&#8217;t endorse the preamble, why endorse the motion, WHICH ENDORSES THE PREAMBLE! </p>
<p>Rick, I know you care for your significant other/family member/friend that voted in favour of this motion as part of the board of members, but give it up.
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		<title>By: Randy Cross</title>
		<link>http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/26/cusa-is-not-actually-sorry/comment-page-1/#comment-7597</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Cross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Shouldn&#039;t the academic standards at Carleton be increased so that mental midgets aren&#039;t accepted to the school or CUSA ?  or is this discrimination and bigotry against mental midgets ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shouldn&#8217;t the academic standards at Carleton be increased so that mental midgets aren&#8217;t accepted to the school or CUSA ?  or is this discrimination and bigotry against mental midgets ?
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		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/26/cusa-is-not-actually-sorry/comment-page-1/#comment-7595</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Re Comment by Wayne Hall.

Wayne the biggest problem I see is this idiotic obsession with equality and &quot;diversity&quot; . Canada is already as diverse as any country in the world, the only racism and quotas I have witnessed institutionally is against White males. Why the hell does Canada need affirmative action, I get so damn tired of reading about crap like this. Are woman and ethnic minorities incapable of finding employment is a country as fair and diverse as CANADA without special treatment? NONSENSE!!! Where i live in BC, &quot;caucasians&quot; are hardly the majority, affirmative action is a complete waste of time. 

Kids get so brainwashed about &quot;equality&quot; they get convinced bias and exclusivity is OK as long as it&#039;s white males being vitimized. Racism is RACISM , no matter guise it comes in and the recent actions of CUSA shows how socialy acceptable it seems to have become to pick on male whitey in our schools and universities. The mere fact the counsellors voted 17-2 in favor to dump CF and didn&#039;t realize how insensitive and STUPID the motion was. Are these kids morons ( maybe) or does it say something loud and clear how actions for &quot;diversity&quot; have degenerated to good old fashion bias, bigotry and racism. Man anyone who cries about lack of diversity in this country hasn&#039;t travelled abroad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Comment by Wayne Hall.</p>
<p>Wayne the biggest problem I see is this idiotic obsession with equality and &#8220;diversity&#8221; . Canada is already as diverse as any country in the world, the only racism and quotas I have witnessed institutionally is against White males. Why the hell does Canada need affirmative action, I get so damn tired of reading about crap like this. Are woman and ethnic minorities incapable of finding employment is a country as fair and diverse as CANADA without special treatment? NONSENSE!!! Where i live in BC, &#8220;caucasians&#8221; are hardly the majority, affirmative action is a complete waste of time. </p>
<p>Kids get so brainwashed about &#8220;equality&#8221; they get convinced bias and exclusivity is OK as long as it&#8217;s white males being vitimized. Racism is RACISM , no matter guise it comes in and the recent actions of CUSA shows how socialy acceptable it seems to have become to pick on male whitey in our schools and universities. The mere fact the counsellors voted 17-2 in favor to dump CF and didn&#8217;t realize how insensitive and STUPID the motion was. Are these kids morons ( maybe) or does it say something loud and clear how actions for &#8220;diversity&#8221; have degenerated to good old fashion bias, bigotry and racism. Man anyone who cries about lack of diversity in this country hasn&#8217;t travelled abroad.
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		<title>By: Wayne Hall</title>
		<link>http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/26/cusa-is-not-actually-sorry/comment-page-1/#comment-7577</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 08:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There is nothing wrong with pursuing diversity in the workplace. There is nothng wrong with pursuing diversity in the teaching population or the teaching curriculum. And in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with affirmative action policies to pursue diversity. 

What IS morally wrong, however, is to discriminate against a particular group of people when providing them with medical help. In a sense, raising money to help treat or conduct research into a disease is a form of medical aid. But its morally wrong to base medical assistance and aid on &quot;diversity&quot; goals. Medical assistance is -- and should -- be provided on the basis of the seriousness of the disease and the number of people who get it. AND NOTHING ELSE.

Can you imagine what our health care system would be like if people like the current CCFF council ran it? People would get emergency treatment not based on need, but based on &#039;diversity&#039; goals. A white male suffering a heart attack would have to wait longer for treatment than a black female with a broken finger.

These people are a moral disgrace, and they should be dismissed from the Carleton student council. They&#039;ve shown that they have neither the common sense nor the sense of dignity, decency and compassion towards their fellow human beings to be in a position of responsibility. And they have severely damaged Carleton&#039;s reputation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is nothing wrong with pursuing diversity in the workplace. There is nothng wrong with pursuing diversity in the teaching population or the teaching curriculum. And in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with affirmative action policies to pursue diversity. </p>
<p>What IS morally wrong, however, is to discriminate against a particular group of people when providing them with medical help. In a sense, raising money to help treat or conduct research into a disease is a form of medical aid. But its morally wrong to base medical assistance and aid on &#8220;diversity&#8221; goals. Medical assistance is &#8212; and should &#8212; be provided on the basis of the seriousness of the disease and the number of people who get it. AND NOTHING ELSE.</p>
<p>Can you imagine what our health care system would be like if people like the current CCFF council ran it? People would get emergency treatment not based on need, but based on &#8216;diversity&#8217; goals. A white male suffering a heart attack would have to wait longer for treatment than a black female with a broken finger.</p>
<p>These people are a moral disgrace, and they should be dismissed from the Carleton student council. They&#8217;ve shown that they have neither the common sense nor the sense of dignity, decency and compassion towards their fellow human beings to be in a position of responsibility. And they have severely damaged Carleton&#8217;s reputation.
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		<title>By: Ruth</title>
		<link>http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/26/cusa-is-not-actually-sorry/comment-page-1/#comment-7576</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 07:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What is disappointing is that this release does not admit any wrong doing, nor take responsibility for basing the decision on incorrect information.  University students in particular should be expected to thoroughly research a subject before writing about it.  Obviously this was not done.  The motion was poorly worded, unsophisticated, based on misinformation, and some would say, contained elments of bias, including racism and sexism.

I have no fault with CUSA making the decision to support a different charity.  There are certainly no shortage of worthy ones out there.  This is not about that.  This is about the method and excecution of that decision.  

Why not pass a motion stating that the board would like to donate to more than one charity and so have decided to pick four charities and rotate the donations each year.  Or pick several charities and split the donation between them.  To single out this one charity, decide it isn&#039;t &#039;inclusive&#039; enough, and then to spew out misinformation about it to substantiate their position shows they were narrow minded, short sighted, and irresponsible.

Again - this controversy has absolutely NOTHING to do with the right of CUSA to choose which charities their fundraisers support.  And if they represent the will of the students, they should be able to choose to whom they donate.  But do it responsibly and for reasons that have nothing to do with race and inclusiveness.

Quite frankly if the council cannot see the real issue here, then they should resign and let other students take their places.  This should not be about covering one&#039;s own mistakes up by placing blame on others.  It should be about resolving the situation, apologizing, and moving forward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is disappointing is that this release does not admit any wrong doing, nor take responsibility for basing the decision on incorrect information.  University students in particular should be expected to thoroughly research a subject before writing about it.  Obviously this was not done.  The motion was poorly worded, unsophisticated, based on misinformation, and some would say, contained elments of bias, including racism and sexism.</p>
<p>I have no fault with CUSA making the decision to support a different charity.  There are certainly no shortage of worthy ones out there.  This is not about that.  This is about the method and excecution of that decision.  </p>
<p>Why not pass a motion stating that the board would like to donate to more than one charity and so have decided to pick four charities and rotate the donations each year.  Or pick several charities and split the donation between them.  To single out this one charity, decide it isn&#8217;t &#8216;inclusive&#8217; enough, and then to spew out misinformation about it to substantiate their position shows they were narrow minded, short sighted, and irresponsible.</p>
<p>Again &#8211; this controversy has absolutely NOTHING to do with the right of CUSA to choose which charities their fundraisers support.  And if they represent the will of the students, they should be able to choose to whom they donate.  But do it responsibly and for reasons that have nothing to do with race and inclusiveness.</p>
<p>Quite frankly if the council cannot see the real issue here, then they should resign and let other students take their places.  This should not be about covering one&#8217;s own mistakes up by placing blame on others.  It should be about resolving the situation, apologizing, and moving forward.
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